Richard Perle's French retreat in Provence sits on a hillside that slopes south to the Riviera. The house is made of white, horizontal stones - like everything else in the vicinity - and has periwinkle-blue shutters. There's a satellite dish tucked discreetly below the second-story roof ridge.
A yellow warning sign catches the eye: WHEATON TERRIER CROSSING.
Perle calls to his dog: "Come, Reagan!"
Our feet crunch on the white crushed rock of the driveway as we pass the big BMW. He leads your correspondent into a patio between the kitchen and the pool that is shaded from the near-90-degree sun.
"I was out to Seattle a few times," he says, about those years when he was Sen. Scoop Jackson's chief aide on foreign affairs. "We went up to some islands - the San Juans?"
A pair of glasses hangs from his blue yaching shirt. Perle's about 5-foot-10, could lose 30 pounds.
He says he and his wife came here 22 year before - after Socialist François Mitterand was elected prime minister. There was a lot of hysteria over Mitterand soaking the rich - "franc flight" - and "I recognized the investment opportunity."
He pours me a tall glass of iced tea. Ice in France? "The first thing I did was buy an ice maker," Perle explains.
The pool sparkles aquamarine below us.
"Richard," says Mrs. Leslie Perle, excusing herself, "if Thom wants to swim later, show him where the guest suits are."
Your correspondent: "I read where Albert Wohlstetter's [who some say was the model for Dr. Strangelove] daughter invited you to her pool in the Hollywood Hills after school, and that you spent hours talking to her father, then married her."
Perle: "Actually, I didn't marry her, despite what The New York Times once wrote."
Perle graduated from Hollywood High School in 1959. His favorite high-school memory was debate; he lost at state finals but did well in extemporaneous speaking at nationals. (Debate was also a gateway experience for Newt Gingrich and Karl Rove.)
TG: "Calvin Trillin speculated that you had a rough time on the playgrounds." [Trilllin's poem is at http: //www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020916&s=trillin]
Perle looks toward the kitchen: "You know, I can't ever remember that [getting beat up] happening.... Funny, but I do admire his other kind of writing - about food."
TG: "You called Seymour Hersh a terrorist after he wrote that you were trying to profit on the Iraqi war."
Perle: "I hope no one thought I meant that literally."
TG: "And you said you would sue him for libel in Britain."
Perle: "Well, I looked into it and, realistically, Condé Naste [owner of The New Yorker] has unlimited resources. I did not want to bankrupt my family. Hersh was taken in and used by Prince Bandar. I have denials from all the principals at that meeting.
"Hersh's reporting has gone downhill since My Lai. The JFK-Marilyn Monroe material...."
TG: "You were Scoop Jackson's advisor on foreign affairs. He was the Senate's leading hawk on Vietnam."
Perle: "I never wrote any of that. I thought the domino theory was severely flawed. I once even marched in an antiwar demonstration."
TG: "There was no conflict with Jackson?"
Perle: "He was a tolerant man."
TG: "Some people still believe that if the military had been allowed to do what they wanted, that war could have been won."
Perle: "They're wrong."
TG: "Jackson believed the communists would invade Europe if given the chance."
Perle: "They found streets signs in East Germany in Cyrillic for Brussels and other European capitals."
TG: "Did you know Nancy whispered 'Peace' in Reagan's ear every night?"
Perle: "He always had those inclinations. He didn't need Nancy [to tell him]."
TG: "None of the neocons like yourself served in the military. Do you regret that?"
Perle: "Do I regret missing boot camp and the rest? No."
TG: "Didn't the neocons support Dan Quayle?"
Perle: "Yes, Bill Kristol was his chief of staff."
TG: "Many see you as the architect of the Iraqi war, especially as you prepared a plan for [Benjamin] Netanyahu [then prime minister-elect of Israel] in 1996 recommending withdrawal from the Oslo Accords and the elimination of Saddam Hussein, just for starters."
Perle: "It was just a study for a think tank. And they put my name on it before sending it in. I've grown accustomed to being miscast. I would like to have all the power ascribed to me since Bush became president. I have not spoken to him once."
(Plan at http://www.israeleconomy.org/strat1.htm lists Perle as "study leader.")
Mrs. Perle comes out of the house: "Richard, Sharon says we have to leave France because of Chirac - he says all the Jews here should come to Israel." She goes back into the house.
Perle (looks around, mutters)" "I'm not leaving."
TG: "Do you feel anti-Semitism in France?"
Perle: "No."
TG: "Would you do the Iraqi war over again?"
Perle: "YES! That's like saying at the end of the year that since I wasn't sick I shouldn't really have bought that insurance."
TG: "And what should we have done differently?"
Perle: "Given Chalabi the keys and left."
TG: "But Chalabi was not popular."
Perle: "No one was popular."
TG: "Hadn't Chalabi been convicted of embezzling $15 million in Jordan?"
Perle: "He had two trials. The first was a hung jury. The second was a one-week affair presided over by a military officer. [Chalabi] has been the victim of a massive smear campaign. Even The New York Times has admitted its errors."
TG: "Have you seen the McNamara movie, "Fog of War," where he talks about the mistakes in Vietnam that seem to be repeated in Iraq?"
Perle: "No."
TG: "Have you seen Michael Moore's 'Fahrenheit 9/11'?"
Perle: "No. I won't give that S.O.B. my money. (Smiling.) I waited until 'Bowling for Columbine' came on television."
TG: "I'll pay for the ticket. You can review it."
Perle: "No, I don't think so."
TG: "Gen. [George C.] Marshall told Truman we shouldn't recognize Israel because there were no defined borders and domestic politics shouldn't determine foreign policy. Gov. [Howard] Dean said America must become an honest broker in the Middle East. Are they wrong?"
Perle: "Domestic politics have always influenced foreign policy, and I don't know what it means to have a policy that doesn't favor someone."
TG: "Who do you recommend as a reliable source of information on the Middle East?"
Perle: "MEMRI [the Middle East Research Institute] is very good."
TG: "Aren't they run by ex-Israeli Intelligence? Mossad?"
Perle: "Yes, but they're very reliable. Everybody uses them."
TG: "The Manchester Guardian juxtaposed MEMRI's translations of Arabic newspapers with neutral versions. The disparity was glaring." (See www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,773258,00.html)
Perle: "I didn't see that."
TG: "What's going on with the suit at Hollinger International and Lord Black?"
Perle: (sips his tea, looks toward the Med): "It's confusing. I think we're suing him."
TG: "How did you get the nickname 'Prince of Darkness'?"
Perle: "A British journalist mistook me for Robert Novak."
POSTSCRIPT. After talking for three hours, I no longer hated Richard Perle. He answered every question. Never lost his temper and was the perfect host. But for being an authority on war and foreign relations, it was surprising how much he hasn't read. He's narrowly focused and well rewarded. This month a committee investigating Lord Black's newspaper empire, on whose board Perle sits, concluded Lord Black had wrongly pocketed over $400 million. And that Perle had taken more than $4 million he didn't deserve. The committee recommended prosecution for recovery.
Thom Gunn would be delighted to receive reader feedback. E-mail him at thomgunn@msn.com[[In-content Ad]]
